Editing Category talk:Timeline

I don't know much about this time period so I think someone else should take over from here. --[[user:strangerface|strangerface]], 9/20/06

renenet is going to work on this!  She believes in using paper notes for some bizarre reason, but we can expect to see her about soon :)

-[[User:Whitearrow|whitearrow]]

== Hrm ==

This is all great info!!  I'm not sure it belongs on a category page, though.  Let me give it some thought...

-[[User:Whitearrow|whitearrow]] 09:18, 25 September 2006 (PDT)

Oh, hey, I didn't notice it was a category page. I was just going through HMD and TOJ this weekend and making notes of any time a hard date was mentioned and then trying to weave it in with the historical dates. 

[[User:Strangerface|Strangerface]] 09:23, 25 September 2006 (PDT)

== Also == 

I started doing the italic thing when I though the timeline would be mostly historical stuff with some book stuff here and there. But now I'm staring to get a lot more book stuff than historical stuff and the italic is looking funny. I don't know a better way to do it though. I want actual historical stuff to be distinguished from fictional events but I'm not sure how. 

[[User:Strangerface|Strangerface]] 09:27, 25 September 2006 (PDT)

I think we should only include historical info that's "true" for book purposes, as it will be on the article pages, and relevant background not contradicted by the books (e.g, Napoleon's birthday).  If "real" history contradicts the book, we just ignore it :)

Does that sound workable?

-[[User:Whitearrow|whitearrow]]

Yes, perfectly. I think NN is trying to work within the parameters given anyway so there sholdn't be too much that's jossed. -- [[User:Strangerface|Strangerface]] 10:53, 30 September 2006 (PDT)

== Approximate Dates == 

I got the July leaving Loch Laggan date from when Laurence tells Bedford that: “Yes, that is Temeraire. He is not yet eight months old, yet he does have nearly his full growth.” (155, HMD) I'm approximating about seven months from January. 

At the very beginning of chapter 11, Laurence gives us the date as "only a day shy of October." And then Jane says it would take two weeks for her to reach Cadiz. 

The date of the Battle of Dover is even more approximate. It's from this reference, "Volly brought almost two weeks to the day from his departure" (165). 

-- [[User:Strangerface|Strangerface]] 16:07, 29 September 2006 (PDT)

If someone cared to make a schnazzy little symbol to put next to approximate dates, we could include a legend rather than adding a note after each date.

--[[User:Железное крыло|Железное крыло]] 15:11, 6 May 2007 (PDT)

== Danzig ==

The real siege of Danzig was from March to May 1807 (see: http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/eceurope/danzig18071813.html ), but that's not consistent with ch. 17 of BPW, which refers to early winter, the frost, and the French army's inability to make headway on entrenching until March (until Lien arrives).  It seems to me like the fictional version is in late 1806-early 1807, perhaps.

- [[User:Whitearrow|whitearrow]]

I thought it seemed off in my head. The date I put up was from history. I still haven't gotten through making notes of ToJ yet. -- [[User:Strangerface|Strangerface]] 18:04, 10 October 2006 (PDT)

The dates I've put down for the siege are based on the previous date in the timeline for the loss of the Russian army, and on the infomation in the books stating the siege was already underway when Temeraire arrived at Danzig. I'm more than happy for these to be change if anyone has a better idea for the date. It's probably worth trying to tie in [[Iskierka]]'s DoB to the siege as well. --[[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 03:27, 16 February 2007 (PST)

== Significant Changes ==

Is it worth mentioning any potentially significant changes from the historical timeline? I'm thinking mostly of Nelson's survival of the Battle of Trafalgar. --[[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 05:57, 10 January 2007 (PST)
*Given the [[Help:Conventions#Historical_Approach|historical approach]] we're supposed to be taking, I think it'd be best to mention it in a matter of fact way. [[User:Zamboni|Zamboni]] 06:37, 10 January 2007 (PST)

*I agree with Zamboni. :) -[[User:Whitearrow|whitearrow]] 10:09, 10 January 2007 (PST)

== 1807-1808 Chronology ==

Here are some points I've noticed from "Empire of Ivory" - page references are to the North American Del Rey mass market paperback edition, 2007.

Arrival in Edinburgh after crossing North Sea: "Their flight was slow and the days were grown short; it lack only a week to Christmas, Laurence realized abruptly." - p. 15 - So December 18 or thereabouts.

Laurence and Berkley discuss less of trip to Africa after Temeraire is found to be immune: "Less than three months to the Cape... to judge by our last voyage..." - p. 121

Laurence meets with Riley to prepare for the Allegiance's voyage to Africa: "She had come into harbor some four weeks earlier, Laurence and Temeraire having reached England, in the end, scarcely any sooner than their ocean passage would have brought them, if they had sailed home with the Allegiance after all." - p. 125 - So the Allegiance has arrived some time but not a great time after December 18, and this meeting is taking place some time but not a great time after mid-January.

The Allegiance arrives in Africa: "...the Allegiance had made good time, still every day of the two months and more had eaten steadily away at [the dragons'] strength." - p. 162 - Confirms that the voyage took more than two and less than three months.

Flight to Mosi-oa-tunya: "Chenery had set down ten days, for the flight which had carried them prisoner to the falls; Laurence had made it twelve, Catherine eleven...  it had not been less than nine-days' flying." - p. 351 - So 18-24 days just getting to and from the falls, plus the time of captivity, plus events preceding the capture - Lily's formation has to have been in Capetown at least six weeks if not more.

Return voyage to Britain: "Drawing near Benguela, they passed a pair of tattered ships on the fifteenth of June..." - p. 316.

Arrival at Benguela relative to departure from Capetown: "'It cannot have been the same band who came on us in Capetown,' Riley said, when he had done.  'It cannot; could dragons have flown here, so quickly?'  'Fourteen hundred miles, in less than a week's time?...'" - p. 317.  This conversation takes place on or after June 15, therefore the departure from Capetown was after June 8.  Therefore, the Allegiance should reach Britain some time between mid-August and mid-September.  Also, the Allegiance can't have arrived in Capetown any later than mid-April, if not earlier, in order to allow for at least six weeks there.  This in turn suggests that she left Britain some time between mid-January and mid-February.

State of Catherine's pregnancy after reaching Britain: "Jane shook her head disapprovingly.  'At seven months I was as well as ever I have been in my life.'" - p. 332 - Is Jane implying that Catherine is already seven months' gone?  If so, this suggests that conception occurred some time between mid-January and mid-February.  This fits in with the above and also knowing that the Allegiance left Britain some time after mid-January - we know now that she has to have left before mid-February.

Laurence and Temeraire return to Britain from France: "He was very certain they would execute him by Michaelmas." - p. 399 - Michaelmas = September 29.  Therefore, the Allegiance has to have reached Britain in time for Jane et al. to go before the Admiralty, find out about their plans re: the plague, for Laurence and Temeraire to steal the cure, for Laurence to be interrogated for a week and then to meet with De Guignes and Napoleon.  This all argues for an arrival date in Britain of somewhat closer to mid-August than mid-September.


Okay, now here's some stuff from Victory of Eagles.  Page references are to the North American Del Rey hardcover edition pub. 2008.

Tharkay and Gherni retrieve Laurence from prison in Dover: "The sky had the peculiar late-autumn crispness..." - p. 45.

Timing since Laurence and Temeraire took the cure to France: "Laurence had slept his last night beneath the sheltering wing nearly three months ago, in the northern mountains, treason already committed and a few hours snatched before they made the fatal flight across the Channel." - p. 55 - Sounds as if this is happening in early December, which technically at least is still "late autumn", at least in southern England.  (As I write this, it is December 9, 2008, and snowing here in New Brunswick, Canada.  Late autumn, bah humbug.)

Laurence and Temeraire meet Maximus and Berkley in camp after Temeraire has spoken w/ the generals but before the battle the next day - Maximus mentions that "Catherine has had the egg."  Berkley adds that the child weighed ten pounds at birth - "Nearly killed her."  When Laurence asks if mother and child are both well now, Berkley replies, "She can write and say so, which means she is only half-dead, I expect." - pp. 136-137.  So we know that it's unlikely that the child was premature, and it also sounds as if the birth was relatively recent.

Laurence meets Catherine at Loch Laggan, where Talleyrand and Murat have been in conference with the British: "She had still the little thickness at the middle she had gained in her pregnancy, but her arms were thin of muscle and strength; she ought to have been resting." - p. 239 - Again, sounds like a relatively recent birth.

Period of guerrilla warfare under Laurence's command - "They had been raiding then nearly two months, when Arkady arrived the first week of March in a great flurry of noise, carrying Tharkay and with three of his ferals for escort..." - p. 281.  So the raiding has been taking place pretty much in January and February.  Therefore Laurence met first Berkley and then Catherine before that - possibly late December?

So we have:
- Catherine is seven months pregnant when Allegiance reaches Britain in mid-August/mid-September.
- But Laurence expects to be hanged by Michaelmas, so really the Allegiance can not have reached Britain much past the end of August/beginning of September.
- This would put the birth of the child at the end of October/beginning of November.
- This does not agree too badly with Catherine still showing the effects of a difficult pregnancy and birth in late December but being able (more or less) to resume active duty. 21st century western medical practices recommend that the final post-partum check-up be done six weeks after the birth.
- So conception occurred end of January/beginning of February.
- The Allegiance sailed for Africa before conception occurred, but not before mid-January.
- Temeraire was exposed to the plague and found to be immune before the Allegiance sailed. 

In view of this, I'm going to make the following changes to the timeline:

December 28, 1806 -> December 18, 1806 for arrival of Temeraire & Co. in Scotland.

March -> January for infection of Sauvignon and Temeraire.

May -> Late January/early February for departure of Lily's formation for Africa.

June -> Allegiance arrives Capetown mid-April.  Discovery of fungus.  Capture of Laurence, Harcourt, Chenery, etc. by Kefentse in early May.

July -> Early June for expulsion of European slave traders from Africa, coinciding with captives' escape.  Allegiance sails for Britain, arrives late August.

February -> End of October/beginning of November for birth of child.  The February date was based on the May date for departure of Lily's formation for Africa, but I think this has been discredited.  So by the time the Allegiance sails for Australia, say in April 1808, the child is about five months' old.  If Riley brings him on board, he would still require a wet nurse, but it would be somewhat more manageable than bringing a two-month-old on board.

[[User:Rose|Rose]] 10:01, 9 December 2008 (PST)

Excellent effort with the dates. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 07:31, 10 December 2008 (PST)

== Proposed Update! ==

At the moment, I'm working on updating my map of 1800's Europe so that it shows how borders changed each year of the Napoleonic Wars and before. It occurs to me that we could use them on this page - one picture at the start of each year - but we'd also need to adjust a few to suit the different timeline of Temeraire.

Thus, I propose we:
*Place maps at the start of each year.
*Start the timeline at the beginning of the French Revolution; as France began invading its neighbours around this time, but mark 1805 in bold as the beginning of the series.
*At 1805, split the page into two halves; the left side chronicling the events of the Temeraire series, and the right side chronicling the events as they happened historically. Significant events are marked in bold either side, so that they can be easily spotted and their differences observed. Asterisks represent a conjectural event.

Thoughts?
[[User:Almaron|Almaron]] 12:25, 28 October 2011 (MDT)

:I think this all sounds great, Almaron.  You should feel absolutely free to work on this! A table should work for the split-page idea.  -[[User:Whitearrow|whitearrow]] 19:54, 28 October 2011 (MDT)

== HMD Timeline Proposition ==

The timeline of ''His Majesty's Dragon'' based on any and all evidence I could find in its text and matching it with historical events. Much of it is similar to what is already posted save a few things here and there. My copy of ''His Majesty's Dragon'' is the Del Rey Mass Market Original paperback, USA edition.

'''His Majesty's Dragon'''

'''1805'''

''Early January'' – Capture of the Amitié (About a week passes between this and Temeraire hatching).

''Mid-January'' – Temeraire hatches (Three weeks pass between this and porting at Maderia [Pg.48]).

''Early February'' – The Reliant ports at Funchal, Madeira (A week passes on the island before Laurence and Temeraire spend two weeks on a transport to Dover).

''Late February'' – Laurence and Temeraire arrive at Dover, report to Loch Laggan (No more than a week passes between his arrival at Loch Laggan and his trip with Rankin to Edinburgh).

''Early March'' – A Saturday at Edinburgh with Rankin — March 2nd? (Another five weeks pass before Victoriatus [Pg. 174]).

''March 29th/30th'' – Villeneuve sails from Toulon.

''Early April'' – Victoriatus — perhaps anywhere between the 3rd and the 8th of April (Certainly not longer than a week after Villeneuve escapes Toulon, based on my estimation of how long it take to run the Gibraltar route. Temeraire is injured during the course of the mission, putting him out of service for a week [Pg. 193])

''Mid-April'' – Beginning of formation training.

''May 8th'' – Nelson discovers that Villeneuve has sailed across the Atlantic (The conversation between the captains about the positions of Nelson and Villeneuve would have occurred after this date, but some weeks before Choiseul’s arrival — perhaps Mid/Late May).

''Mid/Late May'' – Conversation between the captains about the position of Nelson and Villeneuve.

''June 4th'' – Nelson reaches Barbados in the West Indies.

''Mid-June'' – Choiseul’s arrival (A rough approximation, as the only information to give us a clue is that the Austrians are mobilizing.)

''June 16th'' – Nelson believes that Admiral Villeneuve has gone east (This is something that is heard in passing [Pg. 220]; but certainly passed the actual date).

''Early August'' – Temeraire and his crew begin to test his devised aerial formations (Four weeks [Pg. 224] after this is the transfer to Dover. 

''August 21st'' – Villeneuve ports at Cádiz.

''Early September'' – Transfer to Dover (“. . . though it was early September . . .” [Pg. 225]. More specifically, it’s probably the 1st as the longest it would have taken the news is roughly nine or ten days—the courier leaving Gibraltar right before the news comes in and coming back about a week later with another three—or four—days and some odd hours back to Britain with the news [The Gibraltar route—to and back—must certainly be a week at most, six days at least]. That is assuming there are no delays, save perhaps an hour or two of rest.)

''September 30th'' – Roland and Excidium leave Dover for Cádiz (Pg. 275).

''Mid-October'' – Choiseul attempts to kidnap Harcourt ad Lily (“. . . news of Excidium’s arrival, which Volly brought almost two weeks to the day from his departure.” [Pg. 278]).

''October 21st'' – Battle of Trafalgar (James and Volly are expected at Dover the Sunday before Trafalgar, which is the 20th. Two more days pass and then a third, bringing us to the conversation between Laurence and Emily the night of the 23rd. James ad Volley arrive sometime in the early hours of the 24th).

The days leading up to the Battle of Dover follow thusly:

''October 24th'' – James and Volatilus arrive early morning to announce British victory at the Battle of Trafalgar. Choiseul is executed.

''October 25th'' - Praecuroris is sent to a transport heading for Nova Scotia. Public celebration is held for the victory at Trafalgar and fireworks are shot off over the mouth of the Thames.

''October 26th'' - Jeremy Rankin spies Bonaparte's plans for Dover. Levitas dies.

''October 27th'' – Battle of Dover (And then the party at London follows a few days later, but the exact date is unknown — perhaps the 30th?).

'''Throne of Jade'''

''Early November'' – The Chinese Embassy (Following this event, Laurence and Temeraire are separated for two weeks [Pg. 17]).

''Mid- November'' – Admiralty boardroom (This occurs about a week before Temeraire and Laurence board the Allegiance).

''November 23rd'' – Laurence and Temeraire board the Allegiance (Hammond states the date specifically on Pg. 66).

''November 24th'' – The Valérie Engagement.

''November 25th'' – Lily's formation onboard.

''November 26th''- William of Orange.

''December 2nd'' – Battle of Austerlitz.

''December 23rd'' – The ''Allegiance'' ports at Madeira. (This occurs nearly four weeks after the departure of ''William of Orange''. The ''Allegiance'' sets out again almost immediately after restocking, and it is later in the evening—after a short churn of weather—that Laurence witnesses Lui Boi’s sea-sickness. Lui Boi approaches him the next day, thanking Laurence for his assistance. Laurence also invites him for to dinner the next day, stating “It is our holiday, and I am giving a dinner for my officers . . .” [Pg. 141] ).

''December 25th'' – Laurence and his men dine with the Chinese.

''December 28th'' - Yongxing begins educating Temeraire (“. . . two days later . . .” [Pg. 145]).

'''1806'''

''January 8th'' – Battle of Blaauwberg, a.k.a Battle of Capetown.

''Mid/Late January'' – Blythe is whipped for striking an officer of the Navy (This event occurs during a time gap and it is said that it happens on a Sunday [Pg. 154]. Based on the time between this event and Cape Coast, and the days on Cape Coast to the equator, the only Sunday that fits is the 19th).

''January 23rd'' – Death of William Pitt the Younger.

''January 30th or 31st'' – Crossing the Equator (The day depends on the meaning of Liu Bao’ “nineteen days” [Pg. 183]. One may perceive it as nineteen days including that night, therefore the 31st; or one may perceive it as nineteen days after that night, making the crossing the 30th).

''Mid-February'' – Temeraire contracts the dragon plague from Volley(This occurs sometime in the week before the Chinese New Year).

''February 18th'' – Chinese New Year.

''February 19th'' – Temeraire begins showing signs of the Dragon Plague

''Late February'' – The Allegiance ports at Capetown (Their arrival here I have based on their journey back from Capetown during EoI, which was a little less than a month).

''Early March'' – Departure from Capetown (Their there a bit more than a week, almost two).

''Mid-March'' – Three day storm. Feng Li washed overboard (Because of the vague, or lack thereof, passages of time, this may have occurred still in early March).

''Early April'' – New Amsterdam. Sea-serpent (This occurs some three weeks [Pg. 240] after the storm).

''Late May'' – Banka Strait (Riley states, shortly before the sea-serpent attack, that it’ll be a “good month and a half without landfall . . .” [Pg. 240]. It is also reinforced in the letter written by Laurence on June 16th [Pg. 261]).

''June 17th'' – The Allegiance ports at Macao. The party is instructed to travel to Peking.

''June 18th'' – Prince Yongxing returns from Canton, having sent word to Peking of their arrival [Pg. 271].

''June 19th'' – They receive orders to continue on to Peking. They travel by dingy to Donggaun, here they spend the night [Pg. 272].

''June 20th'' – Departure from Dongguan [Pg. 285].

''June 23rd'' – Arrival at Wuchang [Pg. 293].

''June 24th'' – Temeraire are first introduced to Lung Tien Lien [Pg. 296].

''Late June/Early July'' – Arrival at Peking. Attack on the British party (The days following their arrival proceed uninterrupted until the burial of Willoughby, then it skips two weeks. Based on the distance between Dongguan and Wuchang--about 530 miles-- and between Wuchang and Peking--about 655 miles-- the last leg of their journey should have about four days; putting their arrival on the 27th).

''Mid-July'' – Riley’s arrival, standoff between Temeraire and Lien (Another week passes between here and Laurence’s adoption).

''Late July'' – Laurence’s adoption. Prince Yongxing buried (Yongxing’s burial, I assume, is the same day a Laurence’s adoption, but much later in the day; could even be in the early morning hour of the next day).

'''Black Powder War'''

'''Brief Note:''' Riley encounters pirates—see Ch. 17 of ToJ—a week out of Macao, somewhere in the vicinity of the Zhoushan Islands; more than half the distance between Macao ad Peking. So the journey takes more than a week and at most, if not under, two. These appears, to me at any rate, to be a squeeze based on the fact that the Allegiance had to make the journey back and be in port for a week before catching fire—making that nearly three weeks between Laurence’s adoption in early-Late July and the fire in Early August. But then, the time that passed at the end of ToJ is mentioned in weeks and not days, making it a lot harder to know exactly when events take place.

''Early August'' – The ''Allegiance'' catches flames. Laurence’ orders from Lenton. Xian (Less than day from Xian, when Temeraire has his special moment in the lake, it stated to be on the cusp—meaning transition or mid—of August [Pg.39], but I am not sure if it’s meant to mean Late July into Early August, or Early August into Mid-August. I’m assuming the latter).

''Mid-August'' – Crossing the Yellow River (This is about a week after the lake. They further on to Xian but seemingly leave the same day. Two more days pass they rest in a cave near Tianshui, another day passes, and then three more days before they pass over the Yellow River).

''Late August'' – Crossing the Talamaken Desert (After the Yellow River, they travel several more days until they reach the Gobi, on the outskirts of Wuwei. Another five days pass and they reach the Jiayu Gate. Another few days between here, Yumen, ad Dunhaung; after which, they begin to cross the Talamaken. It takes a bit over a week).

''Early September'' – Yutien. Arkady.

''Mid-September'' – Istanbul (Ten days of travel—and then some—occur after their initial encounter with Arkady and before their arrival at Istanbul).

''Late September'' – Lien exposes herself. Escape into Austria. Arrival at Dresden.

''Early October'' – Prince Louis puts together a dinner for the captains and inform them of their orders (This occurs nearly two weeks after their arrival in Dresden [Pg. 232]. Looking at history, this would likely be October 6th. Historically, Prince Louis attended a war meeting on the 5th of October in Erfurt, where lay the Duke of Brunswick, King Frederick, and many other military commanders. It is said in History of the Consulate and the Empire of France Under Napoleon, Volume 4 by Adolphe Thiers that the council took two days due to uncertainty. This means it would have started early on the 5th and ending late on the 6th—though, early enough for him to return, presumably by courier, and dine with the captains).

''October 10th'' – Battle of Saalfield. Prince Louis is killed in battle.

''October 13th'' – Battle of Jena-Auerstedt (Historically it happens on the 14th, in the book it seems to imply the 13th, “It was early on the thirteenth of October; almost a month now since their arrival in Prussia . . .” [Pg. ]).

''October 14th'' – Halle is taken by the French. Temeraire flies King Frederick and Queen Louise to Berlin. (Historically, Halle was captured on the 17th).

''October 15th'' – Queen Louise sends her children to Kӧnigsberg. Temeraire and the royal party set out from Berlin, resting the night at a fortress on the Oder River.

''October 16th'' – Temeraire and the royal party depart for Posen, but rest in an army camp twenty miles from their target. General Lestocq comes to greet the King and Queen.

''October 17th'' – Temeraire starts out for Posen.

''October 18th'' – Temeraire arrives in Posen.

''October 28th'' – Battle of Prenzlau. Prince Hohenlohe surrenders to Murat (This is referenced by Kalkreuth [Pg. 328].

''November 4th'' – Laurence and Temeraire, with the Polish army, are three days from Warsaw when Napoleon reaches the Russian army on the road near the city.

''November 5th'' – Napoleon defeats the Russian army near Warsaw. Find shelter in a crumbling castle (Though it isn’t state specifically to occur the same day, it seems to be implied ‘“We will stay another day,” Laurence said in the morning . . .’ [Pg. 308]).

''November 6th'' – Iskeirka hatches.

''November 7th'' – Temeraire and Laurence arrive at Danzig to find it under siege by the French (Historically, the Siege of Danzig doesn’t begin until March, 1807, which is alluded to by Kalkreuth, who says something in passing about the French being held up—by the winter, I presume—until March).

''Late November'' – Lien arrives at the French encampment outside Danzig (She arrives “scarcely a fortnight” after Temeraire and Laurence).

''Early/Mid-December'' – Danzig is evacuated (Their departure is planned the night of the new moon, and it is stated that they have “so much as a week’s flying”. Interestingly enough, calendar’s I have consulted seem to place the new moon on the 9th or 10th of December).


- Mors 20:12, 30 September 2017 (CDT) [].