Difference between revisions of "Talk:HMS Allegiance"

Latest revision as of 20:31, 28 August 2010

Ranks aboard ship[edit]

Ships' ranks in the Royal Navy were a complex mix of commissioned officers, warrant officers, and the equally complicated ranks of petty officers and seamen, with various classes among the ranks. For our purposes, which is mostly understanding the basic social structure, I've simplified things somewhat -- a midshipmsn's status varied, for example, depending on whether he had "made post" or not -- but as officer cadets, I've listed them with the officers.

The following ranks had the privilege of dining in the wardroom, a situation that arises quite often in the books: the commissioned officers Captain, Lieutenants, the Captain and Lieutenant of Marines, and the following warrant officers: the ship's Master (or Sailing Master), the Purser, Surgeon, and Chaplain.

Other warrant officers who did not dine in the wardroom included: the Gunner, the Boatswain (or Bosun), the Carpenter, the Armourer, the Ropemaker, the Caulker, Sailmaker, the Cooper, and the Master at Arms.

Petty Officers: the Captain's Clerk, Yeoman of the Sheets, the Coxswain, the Sergeants of Marines, Quartermasters, Armourer's Mates, Gunner's Mates, Yeoman of the Powder Room, Boatswain's Mates, Caulker's Mates, and the Ship's Corporals (assistants to the Master at Arms), Captains of various parts of the ship (such as "Captain of the Foretop"), Quartermaster's Mates, Gunsmith, Quarter Gunners, Sailmaker's Mates, Carpenter's Crew, and the Cook.

Able Seamen: those designated "Able Seamen" plus the Coxswain's Mates, the Corporals of Marines, the Cooper's Mate, the Purser's Steward, the Yeoman of the Store Room, and the Cook's Mates.

Ordinary Seaman: those designated as "Ordinary Seamen" plus the Purser's Steward's Mate.

Landsmen: Landsmen and Marine Privates

Boys: Boys part of the ship's crew and boys with the Marines.

(Master's and Surgeon's Mates had a unique status and higher pay than other mates, but for our purposes, I've put them with the petty officers.)

(Source is mostly here: http://www.hmssurprise.org/Resources/ships_officers.html, with some information from various other resources on the Age of Sail.)

-whitearrow

Map[edit]

Does anyone know who did this map? And can they do a similar one for Temeraire's return trip overland? Andrew 05:13, 9 January 2008 (PST)

Sketch of Allegiance[edit]

Can anybody do a sketch of the Allegiance? I have some trouble picturing exactly what she looks like, and what the difference in scale is between, say, her and HMS Surprise.--SarekOfVulcan 09:00, 22 January 2008 (PST)

Regarding Issues with the route taken[edit]

I was reading through several notes about Temeraire on both Wikipedia and Tvtropes, and one complaint was that the route taken by the Allegiance isn't the fastest route to take (To get to the Cape Of Good Hope from Europe, it's quicker to sail to Brazil, and then follow the strong winds of the Clipper Route. This may sound like an error, unless one considers the amount of food that is eaten by the dragons on board the transports. For example, when the Allegiance sailed to Africa with Lily's formation, the reason they would have taken the shorter route would have been; 1, With the dragons requiring too much food than could be stored on the ship, continuous stops were required to reload, and 2. The winds of the clipper route are highly dangerous, and could sink the ship.

Any thoughts on this? It just occurs to me that this issue could soon spring up on one of the pages sooner or later, and we should address it and either explain it or (preferably not) mark it as a goof and move on.

I don't recall offhand whether the book talked very much about making provisioning stops on the coast. It's true that before Temeraire's arrival, British aviators (and their dragons) don't seem to've considered fishing for tunnys etc. instead of an endless supply of cattle... but OTOH the huge dragondeck implies a huge volume of ship underneath it that could be used for storage, plus enough ballast room at the other end of the ship to counterweight the dragons. My big question is what keeps the dragondeck warm all the time? If they're burning coal, shouldn't there be more mention of smokestacks and some huge coal storage area? (If anything, resupplying fuel might be more of an issue, depending on whether heating the dragondeck is an absolute necessity or just makes the dragons less cranky.) --Wombat1138 19:26, 14 August 2010 (PDT)

Hmm. I don't know much about shipping, but I know the Cape of Good Horn is notoriously difficult to navigate. Perhaps a ship as large as the Allegiance would make it even more so? Plus there is the iceburg issue which a dragon wouldn't be font of, since it's clear they like warmer climates. I also wonder if the fact that Spain was an ally of the French at that time might've had something to do with it? --strangerface

Mapping the HMS Allegiance[edit]

First of all, two cross-sections from Google images of the HMS Victory, as an example of what these ships looked like;

We already know that the Allegiance is about 400ft long (For comparison to another ship, that's nearly half the size of the RMS Titanic; 882 ft), has a draught (the distance between the waterline and the hull) of more than twenty feet (the Victory had a draught of 28ft) and (IIRC) that the Dragondeck goes from the forecastle to the first mast. Because mention is made about going up the stairs to the Dragondeck, we know that this area is one deck higher than the main deck, and the galley is directly under this, with the Aviator cabins the next deck below that. Because of this, the Poop Deck must be at least one deck higher than the Dragondeck, so the helmsmen can see over the dragons to steer the ship.

Now, in Throne of Jade, mention is made of two large cabins (these would have the large windows) at the back of the ship that get chopped up for Prince Yongxing, Liu Bao & Sun Kai. HMS Victory has three such rooms; two being large cabins, and the third being a wardroom (dining/recreation room), which we know the Allegiance has. Because only two such cabins are mentioned, we could assume that the Allegiance has the same number of decks as the Victory.

We should also assume that the masts are in different places on the Allegiance than on the Victory, else the Dragondeck would be ludicrously short, but insanely wide, and less likely to hold the weight of ten yellow reapers. Plus, the whole ship is supposed to look like a fan from above, so it could go back quite a bit. We also know that it has to be long enough for;

1. Temeraire to fit on one side, while Maximus and Lily fit on the other. 2. Maximus and Nitidus fit on one side, while the rest of their formation fits on the other.

Perhaps it looked something like this (as depicted with lousy ASCII skills)?

                |                  |                  |      D
 _____A______   |        B         |         C        |______________
 \_____E_____|__|__________________|__________________|______F______|
  \_____G_____|____H___|___________I___________________|_____J______|
   \_____K_____|___________________L___________________|_____M______|
   ||______________________________N________________________________|
--/ |______________________________O________________________________/--
  | |                                                              /
  |_|_________P____________________Q____________________R_________/

A: Poop Deck and Steering B: Main Deck C: Main Deck (Aviator's Area) D: Dragondeck E: Captain's Cabin (Liu Bao & Sun Kai) F: Galley G: Admiral's Cabin (Prince Yongxing) H: Officers Cabins I: Upper Gun Deck J: Aviators Cabins K: Wardroom L: Main Gun Deck M: Aviator Cabins? N: Lower Gun Deck/Stores O: Orlop Deck P: Aft Hold Q: Bilge Pump R: Fore Hold

On the HMS Victory, Sailors ate and slept between the cannons on the Gun Decks, so it could be that the low-ranking aviators do a similar thing. Now, there could also have been an extra deck (so as not to force the ship lower under the weight of the dragons) and the Poop Deck could have been higher (or every other deck one level down, making it the same height as the Victory). The number of guns per deck is no issue, as the ship is long enough that it could easily carry 150 guns. Thoughts? Almaron 01:30, 28 August 2010 (PDT)